Andy Jackson's fighting off a bad cold and is asking for prayer. At least one's headed your way, sir. If it is really a cold, prayer is going to work far better than the antibiotics he's on, since a cold is a virus and isn't affected by antibiotics; all antibiotics can do is fend off secondary bacterial infections.
However, that's not what yanked the chatty ring today, it was his next post, which I'll cut and paste whole.
Mike Bickle’s International House of Prayer movement is rooted in a specific view of the end times that they call “Apostolic Pre-Millennialism.”
Biblical Studies of the End Times:
Mike Bickle and other IHOP–KC leaders teach each Saturday night on
understanding biblical end-time prophecy. The focus is on equipping
forerunners to be a voice preparing the way of Lord and exploring
Scripture to show how we as the Church are to respond in the End Times.
Learn what God has said about the events of the last days through both
Old and New Testament writers.
What are your thoughts? I encourage you to blog on this viewpoint.
Kansas City raised some eyebrows, for there was a charismatic prophetic movement coming out of there a few years back, and Bickle's name rung a distant bell from the modern-day prophet circle. Here's the "money graf" from Bickle's Wikipedia-
Bickle was formerly pastor of Kansas City Fellowship (now the Metro Christian Fellowship). He was the Senior Pastor to the "Kansas City Prophets" in the 1980s and 1990s, which included Bob Jones, John Paul Jackson and others.
Note that this Bob Jones here has no relation to the Bob Jones University folks; BJU's is capital F Fundamentalist Baptist and would have nothing to do with these over-the-top charismatics. My dad has heard the prophetic Jones speak at least once; I recall dad driving down to Flint to hear him speak.
Here's part of a post I did back in 2005 on these modern-day prophets; I pick up after talking about a small "word of knowledge" that I had passed on while chaperoning at a Vineyard youth retreat-
That type of ad-hoc personal prophecy isn't as problematic as the
geopolitical prophecy that goes on in the background of the charismatic
world. [Michael] Spencer mentions Rick Joyner in his list of questionable folks;
his Morningstar ministry has a small but loyal following in charismatic circles.
Other modern prophets in that circle like John Paul Jackson, Bobby Conner
and others are part of a subculture of sorts in the charismatic world;
they run in similar circles as the televangelists, but aren't
televangelists per se. I made the metaphor that TBN's Paul Crouch is
Johnny Carson and the prophets are the stand-up comics who come on and
get free publicity. Some are pastors, like Joyner, while others are
full-time prophets. The Elijah List is something of a prophetic clearing house; that's not to be confused with the Elijah House counseling ministry class that I've been taking as of late.
Even though I'll have occasional encounters with this prophet class (here's one about two prophets visiting Winter Haven and another where a retreat used some John Paul Jackson material),
I'm not comfortable with them. I've seen too many friends place too
much stock in their geopolitical pronouncements. My title of
"Prophet-Worship" might be a bit over the top, but there is an unhealthy
focus on the prophetic in many circles and an unhealthy level of
respect for these modern-day prophets. From some of my church friends,
I've heard talk about what "the prophets were saying" that seemed very
discomforting in that the seemed to be ceding authority that belonged
more with the local church or with one's own discernment.
That "prophet-worship" is my biggest fear when I look at Bickle's escatology.
I don't have a problem with Bickle adopting a post-trib rapture, whereas your standard-issue Left Behind-style premillennialist will be pre-trib. I still like the line from my old Vinyard pastor in Midland, Don Milton, who quipped that he was a pan-tribber; he'd wait to see how it panned out.
I don't have a problem with the theology of an increase in spiritual activity and spiritual manifestations as the end times approach; there are a number of passages that will point towards that.
What bothers me most is his theology, more in practice than theory, is buried in part IV, section G, that the church "...will be led by the apostolic ministry. God will restore the five–fold ministry (Ephesians 4:11–13; Revelation 18:20)."
Let's do a quick check of Ephesians 4:, I'm using NIV here-
11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Here's my take on this from 2005-
Those last three offices in verse 11
(evangelists, pastors and teachers) aren't going to be too much of an
issue for Joe Evangelical, but the idea of modern-day apostles and
prophets may well be. Even among charismatics and Pentecostals, the
idea of people acting in the gift of prophecy is accepted, but the idea that someone has the job of prophet is a bit of a stretch to some, myself included.
I've noticed an increasing trend in charismatic circles to place a bit too much trust in such modern-day prophets.
That is the biggest problem I see with Bickle's theology, but it is more one of praxis than of theology. I could wrap my mind around the idea of one of the guys or gals at church who had a special gifting for prophecy to have the title of "prophet," but even then, we would need to have discernment as to whether it was God or last night's burrito that was talking to the prophet.
That discernment seems to be sorely lacking in that Bickle-JP Jackson-Joyner universe. I've seen fans/followers of theirs take what "the prophets" are saying a bit too much at face value and without a lot of questioning.
That lack of discernment also can sometimes get coupled with spiritual cockiness, where the prophet and his posse see themselves as God's instrument to transform their city or state; we saw a "Transformation Florida" in the early 00s that was "all hat and no cattle" as they'd say in Texas, and a similar group of prophetphiles (that sounds a bit better than "prophet-worshiper") are working on a Transformation Michigan.
That will often lead to disillusionment when the transformation doesn't come, and can also put the overreaching believers at peril if they start taking on demonic strongholds without proper thought and backup. Far too many spiritual Pickett's Charges have happened from people thinking they were God's gift to their town and were ready to kick Satan's butt; unless you have God at your back, Satan can kick back even harder.
Such ministries have a tendency to split churches, as prophetphiles will want their pastor to get with the prophetic program and the pastor may discern differently; the prophetphiles can often become a fifth column in a church, dominating prayer meetings and spreading an alternative theology from what the church generally focuses on. It can also lead to a lack of discernment of doctrine, turning over their ability to question to their chosen shepherd.
Can there be modern-day prophecy? I'm enough of a Bapticostal to say yes.
Can there be modern-day prophets? In theory, yes, but the current crop seems to be a bit too full of themselves to be trusted.
That's my big worry with such theology. It may be OK in theory, but the five-fold-ministry types seem to produce flawed prophets and prophetphiles with an impaired spiritual immune system to fight off false doctrine.
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